John Ralston Saul

Award-winning essayist and novelist, John Ralston Saul has had a growing impact on political and economic thought in many countries. Declared a “prophet” by TIME magazine, he is included in the prestigious Utne Reader’s list of the world’s 100 leading thinkers and visionaries. His works have been translated into more than a dozen languages.

Interview

Why should youth vote?

You may see your self as a victim, but the truth is, if you are not involved, you are a victim.  If you are passive, you are asking to be treated as a passive person, to whom things are done. The outcome is certain if you are not involved.

Why does voting matter?

Not voting is the primary statement of disinterest. Voting is just the basics. It is the beginning. Voting is the punctuation of democracy. A period is a conscientious vote.  An exclamation is an angry vote. A question mark is a perplexed vote. But voting is just a punctuation. Democracy is about sentences and paragraphs. Democracy is about participation, punctuated with votes.

There are all kind of votes; perplexed votes, warning votes, angry votes, the more a politician sees any certain kind of voting as unthinking it is a comment on the politician. The fact it is that these are not unthinking votes rather citizens are not getting the kind of actions they want or expect.

How did you get involved/interested in democracy?

I was always interested. I am a novelist but I also write about ideas: the idea of how a society functions, why is it the way it is, what is the basis of the idea that the collective unconscious is more important than the elite.

My first political memory is from when I was 11 years old, in 1958, as John Diefenbaker swept to power. We were living in Rivers Camp, an army camp in Manitoba. We had just gotten a TV, which was rare in those days. We watched this clearly astonishing event. All of this was about something, strange and mysterious.

Later on I remember when I started going to the House of Commons to watch Question Period. It was the time of the Pearson & Diefenbaker rivalry, which was great to watch. They hated each other. They were passionate about what they were standing up for. Trudeau was less exciting because no one stood up to him, at least not in a sustained way.

What is democracy about?

Democracy is a debate, and discussion. Democracy is also about doing things. Managing things has nothing to do with democracy. We as a society need Ministers to lead. Instead, there is an obsession with management. Issue after issue keeps coming back to the victory of the idea that democracy is about management. Why is it that we simply can't have a conversation about what it is we want to do. Without the discussion you have nothing. Let me put this another way: in reality, democracy is not efficient. That’s its strength.

I have really noticed over the years, that you go to some conference, first the minister speaks, then there is a health break, and they disappear out a back door. No one can get to them. And they don't stay to listen. If a minister does stay, all people do is ask for money. There isn’t space for dialogue, for a real discussion.

Who are some artists who have impacted how you look at democracy?

I’ve been very much moved by two visual arts groups, one in Vancouver and one in Edmonton, that showcase the work of people with disabilities:

Nina Haggerty Art Centre for the Arts (www.ninahaggertyart.ca)
kickstART – Society for Disability Arts and Culture (www.s4dac.org)

Both groups are really interesting. Their first art show in Edmonton was specifically centered around democracy and rights.  In both groups there is a discussion of politics. I think it is because these people ­– who are described as having disabilities – are not as interested in their rights, but they are in their obligations as citizens. They have a desire to be allowed to fulfill their obligations. With the rest of us it seems we take our rights for granted but we don’t want to take the time to fulfill our obligations.

Remember that the essence of a meritocracy is speed. Nowhere in the history of philosophy is speed used as a characteristic of civilization, let alone of democracy. Because their disabilities do not let them be about speed, they have something very valuable to contribute to democratic debate, as do other groups who are alienated or marginalized because they are not mainstream, whatever that is.